Questions about Ephesians 4

Tonight I heard a preacher teach from Ephesians 4, especially verses 11-16.

And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God's Son, growing into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ's fullness. Then we will no longer be little children, tossed by the waves and blown around by every wind of teaching, by human cunning with cleverness in the techniques of deceit. But Speaking the truth in love, let us grow in every way into Him who is the head--Christ. From Him the whole body, fitted and knit together by every supporting ligament, promotes the growth of the body for building up itself in love by the proper working of each individual part.

His reasoning went like this:

1. Christ gave these 5 offices to the church
2. for training, to build up the body
3. until we all reach
   • unity in the faith
   • unity in the knowledge of God's Son
   • maturity measured by Christ's fullness
4. We haven't reached these things yet
5. Therefore, these 5 offices are still needed
6. Therefore, we will see a resurgence of the offices of apostles and prophets

I think this is exciting and a reasonable interpretation of this passage, but I have some questions about whether other interpretations are possible.

Question #1 Is it possible that the clause "for the training..." and everything that follows relates only to the last of the offices? I don't care at this point whether you combine the last two of the 5 (as some do) into a "pastor/teacher" role or not. Here's a parallel sentence to show what I'm suggesting: Mom brought home some gifts for the children: some candy, some toys, some gum, and some pencils and papers, to write thankyou notes, until they had shown appreciation for all the gifts they got from all their relatives. Now I don't know enough about the Greek grammar to know if this is a possibility, so if anyone does, I'd like to hear from you.

Question #2 If we accept the premise that "for the training..." and everything that follows does apply to all 5 offices, does that necessarily require that all five offices carry through to the end of the process? What if the role of the apostles was to establish the church and provide the New Testament Scriptures? The impact of their work would still be carrying through to the end of the process even if there weren't any apostles on the planet at that time. For comparison: The contractor hired framers, plumbers, electricians, roofers, drywall workers, trim carpenters, and painters, for the building of the house, until it was finished and ready to live in. In this example, the framers' job would be done long before the house was finished, but it wouldn't invalidate the overall statement. I'm not arguing here for the end of the apostolic office; I'm open to either possibility. I'm just trying to see if the conclusion in the sermon is warranted from this passage.

Question #3. If this passage does mean that apostles are going to be around till the end of the maturity process, then why have them vanish and reappear? Why not have them active throughout church history?

Question #4. If this passage does mean that apostles are going to be around till the end of the maturity process, then how do we make sense of what the endpoint looks like?

• Forgetting the sermon for a moment, if we just take the last of the offices, pastor and teacher (or pastor/teacher), do we think that there will ever be a time before the return of Christ when pastors and teachers will not be needed?
• As long as new people are being born again, how can it ever be that "we all" reach unity and maturity? Won't there always be some new, therefore immature, christians?
• If we say that this points to the end, after the return of Christ, then I get confused by "we will no longer be...tossed by waves and blown around by every...cunning... cleverness...deceit." This doesn't sound like it's after the return of Christ to me.

I thought maybe "we all" could be translated "we each," like it's not about them working till everyone is mature, but that the work is fruitful in me until I'm mature and in you untill you're mature, but I couldn't find any translation that used anything other than "we all."

Any ideas out there?

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